I'm not convinced this is the actual name of the other faction. Prole usually refers to the Proletariat, or "ordinary working class" people and in the context of the dialogue, that seams to be exactly what's being referenced.
- To recap for Politdivision Central, the purpose of this simulation is to provide reverse-correct infospeak as support for current changes in Earth policy. It is the new policy that the Interstellar Alliance is restrictive and against the best interests of Earth. Intent is to deconstruct historical figures revered by prole sector thereby legitimizing current government policies.
- I think we'll have to take a look and see if any light is shed on jmsnews and I'll crack into the script book that includes this episode to see if he mentions anything about this.Radagast83 02:15, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
- A quick google turns up several links to sites about Orwell's '1984'. Though I don't think "Prole Sector" is a term that was specifically used in the novel (though "proles" are often talked about) I gather the term comes from one of the screen adaptations, either the John Hurt one or the earlier BBC version, or both and is used to refer to the areas of the city where the working class (the Proles) lived. It's no secret that 1984 was a significant influence on JMS & B5 (Ministry of Truth & Ministry of Peace for instance are lifted right off the pages) and the '2762' segment in particular has a very distinct Orwellian feel. After all, re-writing & re-inventing history for the purpose of propaganda was a major part of the book and as I recall was the main character's profession. Blind Wolf 17:49, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, after having a word with Jan on the B5Scripts team, we have been able to establish the following: The original text of the script has both "prole sector" and "politdivision central" in lower case, while "Interstellar Alliance" and "Earth" are in title case. Observe: -
To recap for politdivision central:
the purpose of this simulation is
to provide reversecorrect infospeak
as support for current changes in
Earth policy. It is the new policy
that the Interstellar Alliance is
restrictive and against the best
interests of Earth. Intent is to
deconstruct historical figures
invoked by prole sector, thereby
reinforcing current government
policies. Initiating phase two ofrecreation.
Secondly, in the script book introduction to 'Deconstruction' JMS says that:
- "The holographic recreation sequence features a nod to the bureaucratization of language used in such books as George Orwell’s 1984."
Which doesn't appear to indicate that he actually means any of the things Daniel says to be actual titles, only Orwellspeak. Also: -
- "So Daniel, in this episode, replaces such words as truth and lies with truefacts and goodfacts, because after all, who can argue with a good fact? Just because it’s not true doesn’t mean it’s not good."
So given the lack of capitalization and JMS's completely ignoring citing any actual nods to anything actually in Orwell's or other related works, we agree that it was just a passing mention in the style of Orwell's 1984 "newspeak" without any further meaning and defiantly not the names of actual organisations. Short of a message direct from JMS himself, I can't see that there could be anything more firm and definitive than this and I'd suggest that unless anyone can produce such a pronouncement than we fold both of theses articles into the Second Earth Alliance Civil War article; possibly with a glossary of 28th century human terminology to avoid any further confusion for those that haven't read 1984.Blind Wolf 22:38, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
- I completely understand your point, but I still don't see how having two separate pages covering the two sides of the conflict, regardless of the titles attributed to them in the episode (Orwellian as they are), is a problem. We have other articles about unnamed species and planets that survive just fine without having the proper name included and in those cases we always include a disclaimer or explanation as to the nature of the name in circumstances such as those. I don't see how including a short note at the bottom of the articles explaining that the names attributed to both sides of the conflict were given by Daniel, a propagandist and are not to be accepted as the accurate names of the groups who partook in the conflict. If you really feel that the articles should go in the the "Second Earth Alliance Civil War" article, by all means go for it. I don't want to be debating this until June 2011. :) Radagast83 04:03, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
- Oh believe me, neither do I! ;) I think my main concern here is that using the terms the way we are we're giving a false impression that they're somehow "official" or accepted - with or without a caveat - and that's how misconceptions get started. "Visitor" race and "Thirdspace" aliens for example are pretty safe for this standpoint as they're nicely generic while still being accurately descriptive. Using misinterpreted words from the dialogue smacks to me of leading them some greater legitimacy just so we have thing to put into "side 1/side 2" boxes on the 'War' template. However, since we're in agreement - or rather I out-stubborned everyone as usual ;) - I'll get around to folding it all into one vaguely cohesive mess. Blind Wolf 04:50, June 18, 2010 (UTC)